#58 The lack of inclusion in the Fedora community.
Closed: Insufficient data Opened by rhea.

This is an expression of vast amount of bad experiences with the Fedora community and the leadership.

  • Notions for improvement, suggestions and ideas get dismissed way too quickly and are met with only negative feedback and no encouragement. The amount of resistance for change is too high. The leadership is not even willing to discuss ideas and changes. Discussion about ideas is very important and leads to the best solutions.

  • Inability to accept opinions of other people, dismissal and ignorance. One should not simply dismiss something just because it is negative to what they've been working on. Expressing a negative opinion is very hard for the person doing that, and they should not suffer for doing that. Opinions of any kind should be welcome and never dismissed.

  • Assuming the worst. Members of our community tend to assume the worst and the lowest behavior from ones request. As an example lets take a look at travel request from Ambassadors to take care of a booth at nearby conference: Senior professional requests a funding of 200 euro to attend a conference and take care of Fedora booth there. There are no other Ambassadors to help and one can not singlehandedly stay in a booth for two days straight without a break. They have non-ambassador, an active contributor to Fedora, come with them and help. The Ambassadors group treats these two people as gold diggers looking to have a free holiday, instead of seeing the huge sacrifice that this would be for both of them.

  • Transparency is nice only until it hurts privacy. Example: Some tickets are not good enough to be private, when just about anyone and their dog can join the group and see them. (Ambassadors, Diversity, etc...) This community desperately needs anonymous way to report coc violations, to suggest improvements, etc etc. Anonymously. Not via private ticket, not good enough, it has to be a way that won't collect IP, username, email, simply nothing. No way to get in touch with the person reporting it. I know the disadvantages, but there are also great advantages. A form with a way to choose whether it goes anonymous with a huge warning that there won't be any way to get in touch with the person reporting it, etc.

  • Events and meetings more inclusive - for disabled people, physically immobile, deaf or mute, etc. For example have at least keynote with sign language (of the country the event is held in, or at least ASL in US, and BSL in EU... or something.) translator at the main Fedora events, etc... We should start somewhere.

Any of the above major issues make contributors leave the Fedora community. Diversity and Inclusion is in the first place in the diverse opinions and inclusion of opinions. Scaring people away is the opposite of being inclusive. Assuming the worst is the opposite of accepting the diverse contribution where not everyone is the same as what one would assume. Et cetera.


@rhea Can you give us some specific examples of this behaviour happening?

There are some guidelines from Latam ambassadors to help people get through the funding process, also we have a CoC that serves a guide to be as respectful as we can. In the same sense, we are committed to be as friendly as we can, that is stated in the Friend foundation.

Having all these help and aids, what do you think that is wrong? and how do you think this can be fixed?

I've updated 4th point and added 5th. I hope that it still makes sense and that the update didn't break the readability of the message...

This is an expression of vast amount of bad experiences with the Fedora community and the leadership.

Notions for improvement, suggestions and ideas get dismissed way too quickly and are met with only negative feedback and no encouragement. The amount of resistance for change is too high. The leadership is not even willing to discuss ideas and changes. Discussion about ideas is very important and leads to the best solutions.

Inability to accept opinions of other people, dismissal and ignorance. One should not simply dismiss something just because it is negative to what they've been working on. Expressing a negative opinion is very hard for the person doing that, and they should not suffer for doing that. Opinions of any kind should be welcome and never dismissed.

We are considering conducting an unconscious bias workshop. I am not saying that things will change immediately but we will try.

Assuming the worst. Members of our community tend to assume the worst and the lowest behavior from ones request. As an example lets take a look at travel request from Ambassadors to take care of a booth at nearby conference: Senior professional requests a funding of 200 euro to attend a conference and take care of Fedora booth there. There are no other Ambassadors to help and one can not singlehandedly stay in a booth for two days straight without a break. They have non-ambassador, an active contributor to Fedora, come with them and help. The Ambassadors group treats these two people as gold diggers looking to have a free holiday, instead of seeing the huge sacrifice that this would be for both of them.

If the person has been mistreated and CoC has been violated, they should report it to the Council.

Transparency is nice only until it hurts privacy. Example: Some tickets are not good enough to be private, when just about anyone and their dog can join the group and see them. (Ambassadors, Diversity, etc...) This community desperately needs anonymous way to report coc violations, to suggest improvements, etc etc. Anonymously. Not via private ticket, not good enough, it has to be a way that won't collect IP, username, email, simply nothing. No way to get in touch with the person reporting it. I know the disadvantages, but there are also great advantages. A form with a way to choose whether it goes anonymous with a huge warning that there won't be any way to get in touch with the person reporting it, etc.

Events and meetings more inclusive - for disabled people, physically immobile, deaf or mute, etc. For example have at least keynote with sign language (of the country the event is held in, or at least ASL in US, and BSL in EU... or something.) translator at the main Fedora events, etc... We should start somewhere.

This is one of our major goals for this year!

Any of the above major issues make contributors leave the Fedora community. Diversity and Inclusion is in the first place in the diverse opinions and inclusion of opinions. Scaring people away is the opposite of being inclusive. Assuming the worst is the opposite of accepting the diverse contribution where not everyone is the same as what one would assume. Et cetera.

I really appreciate the thought you have put in this ticket but I am reiterating @x3mboy 's point here. How do you think we can fix this? Can you provide some actionable suggestions? Currently, the D&I team is limited on bandwidth and there is only so much we can do. After discussion, we have decided the goals for this year (in #48 ). Hence, I am not sure how much of it can be done immediately.

Metadata Update from @bee2502:
- Issue tagged with: needs feedback

I am closing this ticket since there is no response by @rhea since 2 months. She can reopen it if she feels like adding something.

Metadata Update from @bee2502:
- Issue close_status updated to: Insufficient data
- Issue status updated to: Closed (was: Open)

Having nothing to say doesn't mean that the issue is gone and closing the ticket won't make it go away. I would instead suggest keeping the ticket open until all of its points are addressed either by becoming goals or in some other way being tracked elsewhere...

Although on another thought, I do have something to say to this:

If the person has been mistreated and CoC has been violated, they should report it to the Council.

You can't report something to the council when the council member is the one in question.

Metadata Update from @jflory7:
- Issue set to the milestone: Fedora 29 (to Oct. 2018)

@rhea raises a great point about the lack of a place to report potential issues with Council members. In the CoC that @marinaz and I have been drafted to work on, a specific proposal for this is being made. In the interim, I would suggest that people reach out directly to either the FPL, @mattdm or me, the FCAIC, @bex. If either of us is the council member in question, I would suggest someone contact their manager in Red Hat. I am happy to provide those names (as can any Red Hatter) upon request, however I will not publish them here as they have not agreed to this reporting chain in practice. This is a stop-gap idea to help us here.

In the CoC that marinaz and I have been drafted to work on, a specific proposal for this is being made.

Hi @bex i would be interested in following that, where or how could i do so?

Metadata